35 replies to this topic

[google]

For me, it's a contradiction in terms, there aren't that many viruses around for Linux so why bother creating suitable antivirus protection?.   That can only result in closing the stable door after the horse has bolted, or in other words if Linux became really popular they would be open to mass virus attacks and would inevitably struggle to repair the possible damage that would be done, not only to PC's but to the reputation of Linux - we hear everyday from Linux fans on how their choice of operating system is far more secure than Windows, yet that concept is only true because it's not a popular operating system, in one hand a viable and proud claim, yet in the other an embarrasing admittance and one which will continue given that the basics of security haven't been addressed to encourage anyone away from Windows!.

Personally, I'm beginning to wonder what I ever saw in Linux and I'm also beginning to realise why I never stuck with it.   As Jim says, and I agree "I am not a Linux basher" but they really are not listening

[marko]

I think in regards to security, we're forgetting that Linux runs differently from Windows, the permissions are not there for a virus in Linux to do much harm although I can't say what would happen to personal docs, etc, but this would be bad enough to loose and should be addressed to begin with, unless it already has???.

I really don't see Linux or any of it's spin-offs becoming anywhere near as popular as Windows, as one poster said it's most definitely a convenience thing and always will be, that's why M$ will almost certainly remain on top in my opinion.

[Giff]

I've been using Ubuntu almost exclusively for over a year now. I didn't want to go with Vista and I was tired of the Windows Genuine Advantage "Big Brother." By and large, it's been a positive experience. There are some things that need to be easier for widespread adoption and there are some parts that need to be improved. The good thing is that the Linux community is addressing some of the glaring issues.

Upgrading from Ubuntu 9.x to 10.04 was pretty straight forward. One big plus on the Linux side of the equation is that old stuff is either cleanly overwritten or deleted as opposed to M$. On the down side, there are still some holes in the basic OS that present challenges to the new user. It took hours for me to get the networking to the point where it was really stable. I also spent quite a while getting native widescreen resolution properly set. Part of that is the nVidia chipset and the other was there didn't seem to be a default X setting for 1366x768.

The other challenge is getting Windoze only applications to run under Linux. Wine does most things, but for those that won't work under Wine, you need to set up VirtualBox or some other virtualization software. The good thing is that if Windoze crashes, at least it won't take down the host, but it does defeat the purpose of running entirely in a Linux environment. Games are a big thing for some of the posters, but the other issue is that some of the basic tools like AutoCAD and Visio don't have good replacements in Linux.

Bottom line is that today Linux requires the individual to be much more technically savvy than does Windoze. It's not completely plug-n-play, but it's getting there rather quickly. Remember, it took M$ over a decade to get most of the plug-n-play issues ironed out. For a general purpose computing platform, Linux performs well.

[James (Jim) Hillier]

Wow...this has turned into a great discussion. I am enjoying reading everyone's comments, so many salient points!! Plus every contribution is respectful and mindful of other people's opinions...what a great group we have here at FreewareBB!!

@dstrout - I must admit, it was some years back when I last trialed Ubuntu. From memory, I'm pretty sure it was Ubuntu 7.4. But that was the third time I had returned to Ubuntu and each time I had serious problems with one aspect or another. I'll also add; I am not fond of the Gnome desktop (native to Ubuntu) and much prefer KDE. I trialled Kubuntu once (about that same period) and liked it a lot. I'm sure Ubuntu and other Linux distros are improving all the time but I remain wary.....suggest you have a read through member Giff's post #23.

@Giff -

Quote

It's not completely plug-n-play, but it's getting there rather quickly. Remember, it took M$ over a decade to get most of the plug-n-play issues ironed out.

Hi Giff. Linux has been around for almost 20 years!! Anyway, glad you are enjoying Linux. You are obviously endowed with two great qualities, patience and perseverance!! Wish I could say the same. Unfortunately, I possess both in rather smallish quantities.

@Everyone - Apart from the obvious; ease of use, security, etc. what would you say is the biggest difference between Windows and Linux?.........

Here is my spin on it:
Windows is being developed by a group of programmers/coders all under the one umbrella working for a common cause toward a common goal. Which makes for an atmosphere of unity and collaboration.

Linux, on the other hand is being developed by many different groups who are scattered all over the place and all working toward different goals, specific to their own particular agenda. There are currently well over 200 different distros available. This fragmented approach is what, in my opinion, hurts Linux the most...it could almost be described as the opposite of 'collaboration'.

Can you imagine what might happen if all those at the pointy end of Linux development got their heads together and started working toward a common goal....to produce one mighty Linux distro, incorporating all the best from the best! There could also be 'add-on packs' to satisfy specific needs, which could be installed separately per requirements.

The other obvious huge advantage of such a unification would be 'bargaining power'. Do you reckon the major manufacturers would sit up and take notice!!!

Cheers all.....Jim

[dstrout]

Quote

Apart from the obvious; ease of use, security, etc. what would you say is the biggest difference between Windows and Linux?

I would agree with you completely. I think many others feel the same way. Firefox makes a great example: many programmers working all over the world to make a great browser, and that is what they have done. Firefox is hands-down my favorite browser, because so many people work together, doing their best to make it so. If linux developers could do that too, they could once and for all vanquish the world's reliance on Windows!

[TheRaven]

google, on 22 August 2010 - 07:07 PM, said:

Very profound answer TheRaven, I'd agree with Ubuntu 100% but like marko and others I too seem to be drawn back to the world of M$ and for me it's just a convenience thing, but we should at least take a little while to explore further, I know I've not used Ubunti for a while so its very likely things have moved on somewhat and progressed.

marko, I seem to remember an Ubuntu installer on the site that dual boots with Windows, can't remember the name of the damn thing though, would you happen to remember?

Thanx -- I use Microsoft Windows 7 64bit Ultimate and have several MS development and office tools and yes, they are very convenient. I also have several P.C. games and a MS Games for Windows sub. MS definitely has grown in their understanding of the general consumer as well as the specialized entrepreneur.

Novell/SuSE is incorporating allot of Mono.Net technology into and revamping a good bit of the GNOME Desktop Shell GUI to emulate the standards of end user interface that MS revolutionized. openSuSE and SuSE enterprise should be coming along quite nicely in the near future for usability concerns.



UBUNTU has a virtualized installer that allows you to run UBUNTU from within Windows in a virtual machine but, oddly, it also allows you to install the O.S. like it was being managed as an application. I think this is possible by using Windows native hard drive management utilities. Anyway, the installer is rooted somewhere on the UBUNTU site. I have noticed that the choice to download the Windows download normally appeared when you go to the download page for the O.S. This may have recently changed but, that is the last place I remember seeing it.

Defraggler interfaces Windows disk management tool sets as an example to illustrate what I just pointed out with UBUNTU -- Windows has allot of functionality under the hood. GUI frontend exposure to the underlying system functionality is where its at as this saves space, conflict management, mountains of time; etc. This same GUI frontend is what would be the turn around for many users regarding Linux as well -- two birds with one stone.

[TheRaven]

James (Jim) Hillier, on 24 August 2010 - 11:06 PM, said:

@dstrout - I must admit, it was some years back when I last trialed Ubuntu. From memory, I'm pretty sure it was Ubuntu 7.4. But that was the third time I had returned to Ubuntu and each time I had serious problems with one aspect or another. I'll also add; I am not fond of the Gnome desktop (native to Ubuntu) and much prefer KDE. I trialled Kubuntu once (about that same period) and liked it a lot. I'm sure Ubuntu and other Linux distros are improving all the time but I remain wary.....suggest you have a read through member Giff's post #23.

Here is my spin on it:
Windows is being developed by a group of programmers/coders all under the one umbrella working for a common cause toward a common goal. Which makes for an atmosphere of unity and collaboration.

Linux, on the other hand is being developed by many different groups who are scattered all over the place and all working toward different goals, specific to their own particular agenda. There are currently well over 200 different distros available. This fragmented approach is what, in my opinion, hurts Linux the most...it could almost be described as the opposite of 'collaboration'.

Can you imagine what might happen if all those at the pointy end of Linux development got their heads together and started working toward a common goal....to produce one mighty Linux distro, incorporating all the best from the best! There could also be 'add-on packs' to satisfy specific needs, which could be installed separately per requirements.

The other obvious huge advantage of such a unification would be 'bargaining power'. Do you reckon the major manufacturers would sit up and take notice!!!

Cheers all.....Jim

Debian Linux had the same vision of a unified development model and network resource/collaboration framework for development teams to get on the same track and set a standard that is still the standard to this day. SuSE, Dream, and UBUNTU Linux all utilize DEBIAN standards, methodologies and tools/resources. Splains why they are the most sought after Linux distros out there.

Windows Vista and 7 are still the most secure operating systems and are being developed, from a security stand point, with Homeland and Federal Security agencies proactively. I seen the test reports by third party security hacks using everything and the kitchen sink against Windows and they couldn't get an I.D. on the O.S. or anything but, a "Firefox" style web browser I.D. while exposed to the WAN surfing the net.

Linux was good as long as it was hardened, using the root management tools effectively, and was also DEBIAN based in some way, as was Free, Net, and Open distros of the BSD O.S. as well as Mac OS X (built on top of FreeBSD). Almost every competent O.S. out on the market is now employing the client-server domain philosophy into the system architecture. Examples like Window's UAC, where an app needs not only admin approval but must also satisfy certain requirements to be able to talk to other applications and permissions to use external resources, indicate that developers are getting back to the old UNIX days and realizing the strides that openBSD had made in the past with the BSD O.S.

Security as an after thought will always leave you wondering how you got screwed -- certainty!

[Information Overload]

I would use it if it were possible to get it on my netbook. Is it possible to get Linux on a premade system? And I'd have to find almost all new freeware programs, but that should be easy with this site.

[marko]

I remember a while back some manufacturers were shipping pre-made systems with the choice of Windows/Linux but I can't remember off hand who they were or if they are still even doing this - you can however install Ubuntu from a USB drive, instructions can be found here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick

[Information Overload]

Thanks. I was looking to switch out my premade Windows system for a Linux not buy a premade Linux. I looked into it myself and am currently downloading the Ubuntu Netbook Edition, but I couldn't find a big enough flash drive as all mine are old 2GB ones so I'm going to be burning it to a CD via an external CD drive.  Hope this works. Its not my first time working with Ubuntu but it is my first time installing it. I'm hoping to still do freeware from my netbook so I'll be looking into Linux compatible freeware I'll have to set up one of my dad's computer's to do freeware on as well so that I can review both Linux and Windows freeware.